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Bankrate readers debate
ATM surchages
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Well,
there is one upside to ATM surcharges: They've given people
something to talk about. And Bankrate.com readers have had
plenty to say on the subject. A recent story on a decision
by Bank of America and Wells Fargo to cut off service to non-customers
in Santa Monica and San Francisco after those cities voted
to outlaw the charges apparently hit a nerve for many readers.
Below, we offer a few of their comments.
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I think we should start a nation-wide
movement against the banking industry. Use tellers. There
may be fees involved, but if the banks are going to charge
ATM fees, then a fee is a fee. But the cost for the bank
to have tellers issue the same amount of cash as an ATM
would have to be greater. Imagine the labor issues if
one Monday morning, the line to use the teller was 50-60
people long. Banks already wield too much power in the
US. Now in Santa Monica they have shown that they will
try to bully the public. Well, let's all meet the Tellers!!!!
My experience shows they are polite, helpful and willing
to serve.
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I do disagree with the amount of fees
being charged, but just as a point of fact, banks in Iowa
are not happy with this ban. Banks filed suit against
the State banking officials and the 8th U.S. Circuit Court
of Appeals ruled that states cannot regulate banks. Iowa
is currently appealing the ruling.
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Initiatives to ban bank ATM surcharging
are nothing more than knee-jerk reactions to a perception
that fees paid are not as valuable as the service received.
Prior to ATMs, consumers were forced to make a trip to
THEIR bank to cash a check for the weekly spending money.
Credit cards were not as popular, and in some regions,
checks were even difficult to negotiate. When we look
back, we realize how inconvenient that was. And, as with
every other commodity, there is a price to pay for that
convenience: ATM networks are expensive to install, maintain
and hold secure. And though the thought of paying anywhere
from 50 cents to $2 or more for the convenience of "cash
anywhere" can seem high as a percentage of the amount
withdrawn, why the fuss over these fees? They are as natural
a function of supply and demand as the price of scalped
concert tickets, hot new cars for which people gladly
pay more than sticker price, or even that $4 can of shaving
cream that one buys at the nearby convenience store --
because it's convenient and you need or want it, and you
don't have -- or won't make -- time to go where it's cheaper.
The point is: One has a choice "Cash anywhere" is simply
another classic example of choice. Let the free market
settle itself naturally. It's the bedrock upon which our
economy is built
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There are two ATM fees. One is the fee
the ATM owner charges me. The other is the one my bank
charges me if my bank does not own the ATM. My question
is, does my bank charge me because the bank that owns
the ATM charges my bank? In other words does the bank
that owns the ATM charge me as well as my bank? Do they
double bill?
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Yes, when you use an ATM that is not your
bank's, you are charged a fee and then your bank is charged
a "nominal" fee. That is why your bank charges you another
fee -- partly to cover the fee they are charged, but mostly
to further gouge the consumer.
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Way back when these ATM's were being installed,
they were fully cost justified on the basis of the full-time
teller positions they planned to eliminate. All the benefits,
career paths, and associated overhead and paperwork were
eliminated with this electronic improvement. The subsequent
use of the debit card to reduce the cost (full time positions)
of processing checks was planned to be icing on the cake.
Now, they're getting really greedy. It's not enough to
have a license from the Fed to print money (grant loans);
it's not enough to pay a measly 2 1/2% to 5% on deposits
and then get as much as 22% on the credit card loans they
do make. No, now they want to take a bite out of every
dollar transaction that passes through their hands. Well,
I think it stinks. Don't worry; they're making plenty
of money. Look at your city; wherever it is, the biggest
buildings have the name of a bank on them.
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I am amazed by the current concern about
ATM fees and the amount of money it is going to cost both
the taxpayer and the banks. Will common sense ever prevail?
Yet, the obvious solution is not mentioned by either the
press or the banks. If you don't want to pay the fees,
don't use the ATMs!!! A large percentage of the San Francisco
population feels as though it is improper for business
to charge for a service. Then they abuse the democratic
process and use it for their own selfish interests. Now,
we tie up our judicial system and waste a large amount
of the taxpayers' money in a legal battle that makes little,
if any sense. Unfortunately, common sense isn't all that
common on either side of the fence. If you don't want
to pay for the service, don't use it.
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The government should stay out of free
enterprise. I use the ATM at the bank where I have my
bank account. I pay no fees. Why should government change
this? If people are too stupid to go to their own bank,
they should pay extra fees. Why should my bank be forced
to subsidize other bank's customers?
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Join a Credit Union. The service is better,
the fees are lower, and if you need a loan you get a better
rate. If you feel that the cost of an ATM is excessive,
don't use it. If enough people stopped, the price would
come down. Legislation is never the answer. It creates
more problems than it solves. The amount of your tax dollars
spent passing new legislation and then fighting about
it in court is more than you would have spent using the
ATM every week for years.
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As a retired CEO of a Credit Union, who
helped perfect the ATM network for credit unions, Bank
of America is bluffing. Every time a non-customer uses
their ATM's they receive a fee from that customer's financial
institution of as much as 90 cents. It will surprise me
if they stop ATM service anywhere other than the small
town of Santa Monica.
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I am disappointed in the I want everything
for nothing attitude that is consuming our population.
If I choose to buy a burger at McDonalds, does it mean
that I am entitled to eat that burger at the restaurant
of my choice or use another restaurant's bathroom
facility at their expense? If you want convenience then
bank where convenience is offered. Don't whine that a
private business (not public facility like so many believe
a bank must be) wants to charge you a fee for using their
facility. Where does this free lunch attitude come from?
Banks are entitled to make profits. That's why they and
hundreds of thousand of other companies exist. It seems
as though local, state and fed politicians are playing
the no can lose game by jumping on a bandwagon that selfish
people are crying for freebees they're not entitled to.
Grow up people.
- I think we are looking in the wrong direction. Rather
then penalize the bank that owns the ATM for charging the
customer for using it, I don't think the customer's own
bank should charge them the second charge for not using
their ATM. Banks already charge a service fee on the accounts
reflected by the debit cards and charge companies already
charge enough in finance charges to more than make up the
difference for their customers use of another company's
machine.
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It's a big world of competition out there
and banks need to learn, just like every other retailer,
that their product is only as valuable as it is cost-worthy
and convenient to the customer. Their only product is
service, as the money belongs to the customer. If they
cannot make that service, be it convenience or costliness,
more responsive to their customers' needs then they will
go elsewhere and they will loose in the long run. No matter
how big of an institution they are, without the customer
base to sustain them, they too will falter and fall.
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If your bank is charging you a fee to
use an ATM that does not belong to them, then change banks.
Not all banks charge the second fee. However, the ATM
user's bank is being charged a fee to be a part of the
ATM system. Do not expect to receive a service for free.
Banks are a business. They do what they do to make a profit.
Banks are not some sort of a government agency that does
not understand profits.
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Once upon a time, ATM cards were the most
convenient ways of accessing one's bank account. But now,
with double-fee-dipping, and just the pure annoyance of
having to hunt down YOUR bank (and if you're out of your
bank's area, you're forced to hand over your hard-earned
cash to some other bank just to access your own money),
I've changed to a bank that offers a new level of convenience:
the Visa-linked debit card- a check card that you can
use wherever Visa cards are. Now, I don't care if foreign
banks want to rip more cash out of my hands, because I'm
no longer in a position where I am forced to use them.
Wherever they take credit, I use my card. And my life
has attained a new level of ease. So, those "bank fee"
thieves can kiss my ass, because I'm never going to give
my money away to them ever again.
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Customers should resist by withdrawing
only from their bank and if their bank does not provide
machines strategically, then join another bank. The alternative
is -- join the credit
union, put your money in the credit union and then you
know you will be charged a fee, but only once.
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The fees charged by banks for the use
of ATM's are for non-customers. Let me repeat myself,
NON-customers. Are there any service industries that provide
the same service to customers and non-customers alike
and not charge a fee to the non-customer? ATM's are not
free to banks. They are expensive to purchase and maintain
and the very fact that non-customers are allowed to use
the machine is remarkable. If banning ATM fees is good
for the consumer, why not ban banks from charging interest
on loans? Wouldn't that save consumers even more money?
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It's my choice to use my own bank's ATM
or to pay for the convenience of using another bank's
ATMs. Our economy is driven in part by fees being paid
for services, and banks are a SERVICE industry.
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Another point in support of the banks
is that those ATMs cost money, servicing them costs money,
providing the cash costs money and maintaining the machines
and their networks costs money.
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Frankly, I'd rather that banks continue
to charge non-customers for ATM use -- otherwise when
traveling out of state, my ATM card will become totally
worthless! When I'm out of my home state, you bet there
have been times when I was thrilled to pay $1.50 to get
out a few hundred dollars!
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Simple economic theory tells us that if
you place a ceiling on the price of a good or service,
it is likely to cause a shortage. This is because a business
will be less motivated to produce that good or service
if its price is artificially held low. That is why if
ATM fees are banned, banks will most likely reduce the
number of ATM's they have and/or restrict access to them.
Government has no business legislating ATM fees. The free
market system should set the price of ATM fees. After
all nobody forces you to use a particular ATM. If you
choose to use an ATM that charges a fee then that's your
decision. If governments decide to ban fees then there
will definitely be a reduction in the number of ATMs.
In effect government would be reducing the choices consumers
have. Maybe governments and so-called 'consumer advocates'
would like to see taxes raised to pay for 'public' ATMs.
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I don't have a problem with the transaction
fee at the ATM machine. Those machines do cost money.
I do have a problem for the bank to also charge me for
an ATM withdrawal. Some banks are charging $2.00 or more
for each transaction and they don't own the machine. I
know it may cost a few cents for the electronic transfer
of funds but it is only a few cents. If anything should
be banned it should be the back end fees you are paying
for using a non-bank ATM.
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Most banks charge you if you use somebody
else's ATM, and a portion of that fee goes to the ATMs
institution, then the originating ATMs bank also charges
you. If your bank does so, stop using the ATM and use
tellers whenever possible. Since their cost savings by
your using ATMs instead of tellers far outweighs these
surcharges, doing so would strike at what they care about
most -- their money. Does anyone remember when banks suggested
they would charge for you to use a teller to increase
ATM usage and reduce cost???
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At the time of introduction ATM's were
labeled as a cost cutting measure for the banks. Once
they had been established as a convenience for many consumers
they have become a pure profit center for the banking
industry. If they incur costs they should provide these
foreign ATM's at cost. Charging you to get YOUR money
back is ridiculous. Be wary of debit cards. They are being
touted the same way ATM's were years ago. They save banks
the costs of checks and are viewed as an added convenience
for consumers. How soon until they charge for their usage?
For those that care, the only method is to search for
a bank with lower ATM fees. I agree with a previous poster
the fee your own bank charges to use a foreign ATM is
the first one that you should try to eliminate.
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To all those who claim ATMs are not needed:
I hope you get stranded in a strange town, at night, with
little cash and a screaming baby without using an ATM.
The ATM is the middle-to-poverty class's bank. Removing
it will create a long period of trouble. Taxing it is
not only illegal by principle, but unfair.
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If you are stranded in a strange town
at night with a screaming baby and need cash, it would
seem to me that $2-$4 is not a very high price to pay.
I'll bet you have a car phone for emergencies. I'll also
bet that you pay much more for it than you do ATM fees.
Banks are in business to make a profit, not for non-customers
to use their customers' cash.
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There are two steps toward avoiding or
at least minimizing ATM fees:
1) Get an account with a credit union. I have been extremely
happy with my CU; they have one CU-owned ATM, but they
are a part of the Presto! network. I live in Florida,
and can withdraw cash at any Publix supermarket free of
charge. The ONE time in the past two years I have paid
an ATM fee was when I found myself short of cash on a
business trip in Virginia, and had to use a non-Presto!
ATM.
2) Set a BUDGET! Give yourself x amount of dollars for
"impulse" purchases and STICK TO IT. 99 percent of the
time, you won't have to run to an ATM for another $20.
Three years ago, before I smartened up financially, my
statement would be a mile-long list of ATM withdrawals,
with a hefty list of ATM fees to boot. Now, I use an ATM
perhaps a couple of times a year, because I plan so as
not to overspend my available cash.
The ATM fees rank up there with late fees and other bank
surcharges: those who are not careful with their finances
are hit hardest.
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I use USAA Federal Savings Bank in San
Antonio, though I live in Atlanta. They actually rebate
any ATM surcharge I pay to another bank up to $15 a month
(they also charge no fees on my accounts and even pay
interest on my checking, regardless of my balance). My
wife, on the other hand, really appreciates the convenience
of being able to make a deposit in person if she needs
to, though she never does. She used to bank with a small,
local bank, called The Bank of North Georgia, with only
a few ATMs. She got so fed up with having to pay large
surcharges to large banks to use their ATMs that she finally
switched to one of them, Wachovia. Her new bank is far
less friendly and charges her more fees than her old local
bank. To me that is anti-competitive. When a large bank
is able to punish customers of a bank that gives them
better service at a lower cost, something is wrong. It
is time for government to step in and ensure some limit
on the big banks' power. If Congress started talking about
vertically disintegrating ATM operations and ownership
from the banks, I think you would very quickly see the
bank ATM surcharges drop like a rock.
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And whom do you think would end up paying
for those "disintegrated" entities that run ATMs separately
from banks? I submit that unless those separate entities
can run ATM networks as efficiently as banks, you'll see
one of two things: Even higher surcharges (more entities
actually involved, because you simply can't remove the
financial institution fully from the picture), or fewer
machines altogether. I say leave well enough alone. I
just can't understand why folks don't understand simple
supply and demand. If you don't want to pay a fee, use
your own bank. If that's inconvenient, switch banks. The
price of a surcharge is irrelevant, be it 50 cents or
$10. As long as there exists venues for free withdrawals,
the consumer has a choice. But the prevailing mentality
that one should be entitled to use another bank's (or
non-bank owner's, for that matter) ATMs for cheap or,
better yet, free, is absolutely absurd. With the exception
of true monopolies, there's just no such thing as "too
profitable." But to infer or state that one's entitled
to certain lower fees is ridiculous. Let's just choose
the venue that, at the moment of need, provides the best
value received for the price paid -- whatever the price.
No demand? Price falls. If we vote with our feet rather
than with legislation, we're all better off. The unfortunate
problem is that there are too many hypocrites out there
that continually cry "Poor me!" and want a free lunch.
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-- Posted: Nov. 15, 1999
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